Thursday, August 04, 2005
Our own evil
An individual who claimed to be a “religious Jew” shot at unarmed Arab civilians on an Israeli bus. Undoubtedly, there will be some Jewish nut-jobs who will come out to defend him and his actions. It is up to the rest of us should make sure that they're a fringe minority, and that everyone knows it.
The terrorist was subdued while changing magazines, but later lynched by a street mob. While I would have preferred to see this guy brought to justice in a court of law, I have to say, I don't really feel sorry for him.
Technorati tags: Shfaram, terrorism
The terrorist was subdued while changing magazines, but later lynched by a street mob. While I would have preferred to see this guy brought to justice in a court of law, I have to say, I don't really feel sorry for him.
Technorati tags: Shfaram, terrorism
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Can I speak up? You call it a horror; an evil. But let me ask you something: There are legitimate contexts for war. I'm taking that for grated. That established, can you imagine the exhasperation and frustration of the settlers, who when fired upon DAILY (My brother just got the roof of his house blon off), can't turn to the very govt. which is supposed to care for them. they have been neglected and rejected by their motherland. They see a state which awards the killers of their babies. They see a state which is making the burrial grounds of pure Israeli soldiers, the future home of their killers. And all democratic petition falls upon deaf ears. Even if at this point Sharon has a majority, that is only because the citizens look up to their elected leaders who out of self interest, and out of the value they place upon their jobs, nod in agreement to sharons' nonsense and lies. Those public officials who dare dissent are fired and hounded. Rabbi's who raise valid political, social, and RELIGIOUS concerns, are intimidated and threataned. (see the story with Rabbi Drukman.) No wonder Sharon has a majority. But those on the ground-the settlers themselves-are suffering from the betrayal dealt them by their own country. So, when one hot head tries taking matters inhis own hands because he distrusts a govt. which is negociating the murder of many more Jews, rachmono litzlan, can we blame him? What is scary is that I believe this is a first. There will be more such cases in the future. We are a people without a home, citizens without a state, people lied to and betrayed, and we have SUFFERED AND DIED from those lies, and yes, people are going to snap. So, while I don't suggest you celebrate what happened, I do think the the moral athaurity with wich you condemn the act is uncalled for.
I am Orthodox, and I consider myself right-wing. I am shocked and disgusted by Dovid's comments. How is what you are saying any different that when some left wing idiot claims that suicide bombings are a legitimate act because the palestinians have no other options?
>But those on the ground-the settlers themselves-are suffering from the betrayal dealt them by their
>own country. So, when one hot head tries taking matters inhis own hands because he distrusts agovt.
>which is negociating the murder of many more Jews, rachmono litzlan, can we blame him?
First of all, this guy wasn't even a settler. Second of all, let's parse what you said:
"So, when one hothead tries taking matters into his own hands by killing innocent Arab civilians because he distrusts a governemt which is kicking Jews out of Gaza, which could be quite dangerous for Israeli security, can we blame him?"
Yes. Of course we can blame him. He's a terrorist and a murderer. One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. He opened fire on a bus filled with civilians. How exactly does that help the cause of the Jewish residents of Gaza?
>But those on the ground-the settlers themselves-are suffering from the betrayal dealt them by their
>own country. So, when one hot head tries taking matters inhis own hands because he distrusts agovt.
>which is negociating the murder of many more Jews, rachmono litzlan, can we blame him?
First of all, this guy wasn't even a settler. Second of all, let's parse what you said:
"So, when one hothead tries taking matters into his own hands by killing innocent Arab civilians because he distrusts a governemt which is kicking Jews out of Gaza, which could be quite dangerous for Israeli security, can we blame him?"
Yes. Of course we can blame him. He's a terrorist and a murderer. One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. He opened fire on a bus filled with civilians. How exactly does that help the cause of the Jewish residents of Gaza?
posted by 
at Sat Aug 06, 08:47:00 PM EDT. Link
at Sat Aug 06, 08:47:00 PM EDT. Link
dovid --
There are legitimate contexts for war.
Yes, there are. Unarmed civlians are *never* legitimate targets. Terrorists indiscriminately attack unarmed civians. People with morals (including armies with morals) do not. In this case, the terrorist was acting outside of authority, and with no legitimate military objective whatsoever.
So, while I don't suggest you celebrate what happened, I do think the the moral athaurity with wich you condemn the act is uncalled for.
I claim the moral authority to say that Palestinians (whose claim to justification is that they are suffering, oppressed, etc.) are wrong to attack Jewish civlians, and I claim the same moral authority with respect to Jews attacking civlian Arabs.
I usually don't like using caps and exclamations, but, for emphasis:
MURDER IS WRONG!!!!!!
POLITICS DO NOT EXCUSE MURDER!!!
There are legitimate contexts for war.
Yes, there are. Unarmed civlians are *never* legitimate targets. Terrorists indiscriminately attack unarmed civians. People with morals (including armies with morals) do not. In this case, the terrorist was acting outside of authority, and with no legitimate military objective whatsoever.
So, while I don't suggest you celebrate what happened, I do think the the moral athaurity with wich you condemn the act is uncalled for.
I claim the moral authority to say that Palestinians (whose claim to justification is that they are suffering, oppressed, etc.) are wrong to attack Jewish civlians, and I claim the same moral authority with respect to Jews attacking civlian Arabs.
I usually don't like using caps and exclamations, but, for emphasis:
MURDER IS WRONG!!!!!!
POLITICS DO NOT EXCUSE MURDER!!!
You guys are right. I'm just so frustrated because everyone knew that this would happen sooner or later, but the arrogance of the govt., got in the way of intervention. Anyways, i don't sympathize with murderers, arab or israeli.
Hi. On the topic of disingagement, check out this article: http://www.algemeiner.com/generic.asp?ID=424
Let us know what you think
Let us know what you think
This is the wrong topic to be discussing the disengagment in (so, by blog-owner fiat, the discussion of it in this topic ends here), but, if you really want to know, something very close to where I stand now was summarized by Jack's Shack in this post. If you really want to have an impassioned political discussion, put a topic on your own blog. Thanks!
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